Iraq

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Re: Iraq

Postby Humphrey Osmond » 27 Aug 2010, 00:35

chopper wrote:why the feck did we go into afghanistan and iraq in the first place..? any trouble in them countrys aint got nothing to do with us or the usa..we should of minded our own fecking buisness..do you think if there was big trouble in china next year that the usa and the uk would go in there and try sort it out..? would they bollox..the usa and uk went into iraq for one reason..


If you really want to know, you need to understand a few key influences that were in place prior to 9/11.

"Project for the New American Century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_fo ... an_Century

"American Enterprise Institute"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_E ... _Institute

And the creation a year after 9/11 of:
"Office of Special Plans"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

The names of those involved, when checked against those who made policy in the Bush administration (as well as Reagan's and others) paints a pretty clear picture. Also noteworthy is those names (most of them) central to creation of US foreign policy that also appear in the 1996 report A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, a paper prepared for incoming Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. It's worth spending some time examining the careers of two of the authors of this paper, Douglas Feith and Richard Perle (as well as David Wurmser), in regards to their roles in the Bush Administration.

With regard to Afghanistan timeline, spend some time looking into "Unocal" (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html), especially with regard to CIA involvement and the efforts to build a pipeline that were rebuffed by the Taliban after May 15, 2001 when a US official (via the Pakistani delegation acting as their interlocutors) made the ultimatum: "Either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs."

chopper wrote:oil..simple as that..no other reason....oil.

Not quite that simple, ...a desired byproduct, sure ...but the reason has more to do with empire building, market control and corporate hegemony via US government proxy.

None of this is "conspiracy nut" fodder, ...it's all well cited and sourced.
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Re: Iraq

Postby Moonbat » 27 Aug 2010, 03:50

And if we look in the PNAC, and spin the wheel on the "What Happens Next Machine" the logical question that follows is..."who is next in line?"

When I saw the unveiling of the rather pitiful "Ambassador of Death" I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

I was like...Really? Really? Is this a script for a B movie? Is someone attempting to portray Ahma-dinnerjacket-ejad (Thank you Steven Colbert :mrgreen: ) as Ming The Merciless?

As Cenk Uygar of The Young Turks might say "OF COURSE"

Don't forget folks, the Neo-Conservative agenda is to present a script to us, the great unwashed, with easy to swallow symbols of good and evil...white hats, black hats, so that we will react in predictable ways. We vs. They. The sudden surge in Islamaphobia? Fed and boosted by the extreme right media at Fox.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/08/irans-ambassador-of-death-drone-is-more-envoy-of-annoyance/

Iraq had weapons of mass des- ummm...they were here last time I checked...dammit...err...well they were shooting those scuds full of cement and you know what that means (Damn you Saddam we told you to stay on timetable, now you're our boy but if you start messing around, well you saw what happened to Manuel Noreiga, we will put you on ice just as fast so don't f#*k around - got me?).

:roll:

Anyone starting to feel "played" yet?
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Re: Iraq

Postby Humphrey Osmond » 27 Aug 2010, 05:16

Moonbat wrote:Anyone starting to feel "played" yet?

Nope, ...remember this?


Tuesday, March 18, 2003 | 9:42 PM ET

CBC News

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has revealed more reasons behind Canada's decision not to join the U.S. in a war against Iraq.
Chrétien told the House of Commons that the goal of disarming Saddam Hussein could have been achieved if Iraq was given a few more weeks to comply with UN weapons inspections. And the prime minister repeated that he's against the idea of forcing a regime change.

Question period was all about the near certain war against Iraq and Canada's decision to stay out.

"The diplomatic process was bringing positive results. That was the view of the Canadian government. It was not, obviously, the view of the American government. We can have a disagreement there. I still feel given a few more weeks disarmament would have been achieved," he said.
Chrétien also said that forcing a regime change is not desirable. Many leaders in the world are not his friends, but, he adds, only the local people have the right to change government. "If we change every government we don't like in the world where do we start? Who is next?"

That is the closest Chrétien has come to criticizing the Bush administration for pledging to go to war against Iraq.

The Liberal government now says it is opposing any invasion on principle.




Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/03/18 ... z0xmReknTu

It's a good thing Harper wasn't in charge in 2003....

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Re: Iraq

Postby saddle-tramp » 03 Sep 2010, 14:10

I remember some twit at the time said "they never had WMD, and if they did, WE gave them to them"..Like wtf kinda logic is that?....

Naah, hope they invade Iran as planned, the whole place will explode, and N Korea as planned aswell...

I'm looking forward to it.... :clap:
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Re: Iraq

Postby Moonbat » 06 Sep 2010, 07:40

I knew if I dug around a bit...thanks new customer loyalty perk laptop :dance:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/aug/30/terrorism.july7


Rules that would guide the deportation of alleged terrorist sympathisers were published by the government last week. It is a key part of their attempt to deal with the "evil ideology" of Islamism and its role in inspiring terrorist attacks on our country. But there is growing unease about whether this response is right or will be effective in stopping future attacks. There is an even more serious fear that we might be making the situation worse.

This is exactly what happened in the reaction to the attacks on America in 2001. For years after 9/11 we were told that we faced a powerful, well-organised enemy, who had established a centrally coordinated command structure that needed to be sought out and crushed. We went storming into Iraq to prevent a rogue state from supplying WMD to this organisation. This would make the world a safer place. But the enemy was not an organised network, and going into Iraq has done the opposite of what we intended. Our actions have inspired resentment throughout the Middle East and Iraq is now the world centre of terrorist activity.

Last year I made a series of documentaries for the BBC, The Power of Nightmares, which showed how a fantasy image of the "al-Qaida" organisation was created. The films told how the response to the shocking events of September 11 2001 swung out of control, and the threat became exaggerated to a dangerous level. Although there was a serious terrorist threat, the films criticised the apocalyptic vision of what lay behind it - the "nightmare" of a uniquely powerful network, unlike any previous terrorist danger and capable of overwhelming our society and our democracy.

The Power of Nightmares said bluntly that this was a fantasy. The real threat came not from a network, but from individuals and groups linked only by an idea. Our energies were going into fighting a phantom enemy. We were looking for a network that didn't exist when we should have been dealing with an idea that does.

The evidence we have of what lies behind the London bombings confirms that this was the real nature of the threat. It is fascinating to see how suddenly all the terror "experts" have changed their tune. For three years they told us breathlessly about a terrifying global network. Now, suddenly, it has gone away and been replaced by "an evil ideology" that inspires young, angry Muslim males in our own society.

It is good that we now all agree on the nature of the threat, but there remains a danger that the "idea" will be simplified, exaggerated and distorted just as the "network" was, and that in this mood of fear the government will bring in policies that will alienate young Muslims further and drive them towards dangerous extremism.

Modern Islamism is a complex political movement with a history that goes back more than 50 years. Its most influential ideologist was an Egyptian school inspector, Sayyid Qutb. In the 50s he wrote a series of books that put forward a powerful critique of modern western culture and democracy, and called for a new type of utopian society in Muslim lands in which Islam would play a central political role.

Out of this has come a movement for revolutionary change in the Islamic world that includes an extraordinary range of groupings and variations on Qutb's original arguments. It is only a tiny minority in the Islamist movement who have developed these ideas into a politics that advocates terrorism against the west. Historians of Islamism have shown that this minority, grouped initially around Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri in the late 90s, turned to attacking the west only because of the failure of the wider movement to achieve its revolutionary aims in the Muslim world.

We must be aware of this distinction so as to avoid a witch-hunt against the whole Islamist movement. We may not agree with its reactionary vision of the political use of Islam and the pessimistic, anti-progressive beliefs that lie at the heart of Qutb's teachings, but it is essential to realise that there is no inherent link between these ideas and terrorism. There are worrying signs that journalists are confusing the murderous beliefs of a genuinely destructive minority with the political ideas of a much wider movement. By lumping Islamism into a frightening, violent, anti-western movement led by the "preachers of hate", they risk exaggerating and distorting the threat yet again.

The real danger is that, by suppressing Islamism, we will make its ideas more attractive to already marginalised young men. In the process we may inadvertently drive them further towards the extreme militant wings of the movement, and prove yet again the old adage that the real threat to democracy from terrorism is not the action but the reaction.

· Adam Curtis wrote and produced The Power of Nightmares: the Rise of the Politics of Fear, which was broadcast on BBC2 last October

adam.curtis@bbc.co.uk


This kind of thinking needs to be heard above the warhawks and corporates and tea party lunatics and people banning cultural centers... and also perhaps those in a place to redress the issues of culpability and restitution?

This man and his documentary is also btw to draw things back along into the "why did we go in there?" question to begin with
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