POFUsers.com - Plenty of Fish Users Forum

Is there a universal right for all women / all couples (gay or straight) to have children?

Simple question, lots of things to put into the melting pot. So let's avoid the Yes / No answers!

Men have no rights on this question, in a lot of cases we just have responsibilities after women have made choices or as is becoming more commonplace the state has responsibilities after the woman has made choices.

I don't believe anyone should have a right to children where thier personal circumstances mean they will never be able to support that child independantly from 100% state dependancy and it's not just about the income support, the council flat paid for by housing benefit, the excemption from council tax, the free school meals etc etc it's also about the fact that these people never work and pay taxes into a society that provides for people who take the piss out of the rest of us. Some may say but everyone gets child benefit working or not working and everyone's child gets free education regardless of their parents employment status, that's boll*cks...the working parent or parents are paying taxes so their childs education is not free it's only truly free if you've never worked a day in your life.

But we are a civilized society so there is bugger all we can do about it.

I don't believe anyone should have a right to children where thier personal circumstances mean they will never be able to support that child independantly from 100% state dependancy and it's not just about the income support, the council flat paid for by housing benefit, the excemption from council tax, the free school meals etc etc it's also about the fact that these people never work and pay taxes into a society that provides for people who take the piss out of the rest of us. Some may say but everyone gets child benefit working or not working and everyone's child gets free education regardless of their parents employment status, that's boll*cks...the working parent or parents are paying taxes so their childs education is not free it's only truly free if you've never worked a day in your life.

That is a very black and white view of things Shabba..what about the grey areas?.
The parent is in an accident and can not work.
Death of a partner
Divorce and no CSA payments.
Child becomes ill or is disabled?
These circumstances also need careful consideration.

They are in no way the demographic i was talking about, i think you know full well who i was reffering to...the Jeremy Kyle generation.

How about the NHS footing the bill for IVF for a couple where both are working? Is that a right?

Or a couple who are disabled in such a way - say blindness that doesn't stop 1 member of the couple working - that they have to have support workers in to look after their baby 24/7?

(Me, I'm just throwing questions out here to get some activity on the site, my opinions will come later!)

i think you know full well who i was reffering to...the Jeremy Kyle generation.

Sorry I was not being obtuse, There are always going to be people that abuse the system..However to try and stop this from happening some of the innocent claimants may get in the crossfire..Although it does seem that this government tend to 'pick' on the wrong ones..

As for Gay rights..everyone deserves a chance of giving a child a fulfilling life never mind what their sexual preference is..

belinda wrote: How about the NHS footing the bill for IVF for a couple where both are working? Is that a right?

IVF will be paid for once and that's if you are fortunate enough to live in the right Health Authority area, if that one shot fails which it usually does it's down to the couple to pay for any further treatment....and lets not forget these "working" potential parents wil be paying tax into the system.

belinda wrote:Or a couple who are disabled in such a way - say blindness that doesn't stop 1 member of the couple working - that they have to have support workers in to look after their baby 24/7?

Or the children of a soldier who's had his legs blown off in Afghanistan? or the children of a woman suffering from cancer?

The list is endless and these people should be supported 100%. My point is lazy, good for nothing pondlife who will be forever economically inactive CHOOSING to have children.

shabbawanks wrote:Men have no rights on this question, in a lot of cases we just have responsibilities after women have made choices or as is becoming more commonplace the state has responsibilities after the woman has made choices.

All men have rights on this one. They are aware of how babies are conceived, the function of a penis and what sperm does. If you don't want children stick a bag on it! (Complaining you don't like how it feels carries very little weight.) That is the control you have over the situation and if you choose to hand that control over to someone else, that is also your decision.

Guest7 wrote:

shabbawanks wrote:Men have no rights on this question, in a lot of cases we just have responsibilities after women have made choices or as is becoming more commonplace the state has responsibilities after the woman has made choices.

All men have rights on this one. They are aware of how babies are conceived, the function of a penis and what sperm does. If you don't want children stick a bag on it! (Complaining you don't like how it feels carries very little weight.) That is the control you have over the situation and if you choose to hand that control over to someone else, that is also your decision.

That's the bog standard stock answer in this kind of debate and while it carries a lot of weight it's not a be all and end all lof the situation, what about a LTR where the woman is on the BCP? regularly rubbering up everytime inferes a sense of mistrust of her, what about when a couple plan to have children and the woman changes her mind after she's conceived?...what rights does the man have in that situation? it's far too complex to simply spout "stick a bag on it" unless of course it's just a one off when you should anyway for reasons of sexual health.

Guest7 wrote:

shabbawanks wrote:Men have no rights on this question, in a lot of cases we just have responsibilities after women have made choices or as is becoming more commonplace the state has responsibilities after the woman has made choices.

All men have rights on this one. They are aware of how babies are conceived, the function of a penis and what sperm does. If you don't want children stick a bag on it! (Complaining you don't like how it feels carries very little weight.) That is the control you have over the situation and if you choose to hand that control over to someone else, that is also your decision.

Absolutely. I can't even be bothered to comment on that, such is my opinion for the men who cry unfairness.

Shabba I'm wondering how you'd decide who is allowed a baby. How you would enforce it and who would do the enforcing? For instance the JK generation is in your opinion between what, 15 and 25?, 10 and 20? What is the JK generation? How would enforce they didn't have babies? Sterilisation? Enforced contraception at a certain age? What do you suggest we do with the JK generation? (I know people who'd say shoot 'em). I looked after a 17 yr old mother a few years ago, if you met her you'd see her as the opitome of who you call the JK generation, however a few years on she's still with her partner, they both work, they've matured into responisble hard working adults and their children are well mannered delightful kids.

When a teenager gets pregnant do you force her to have an abortion against her will? In my work I frequently deal with the long term trauma of abortions that were done for a number of various reasons and I can assure you that the NHS has probably paid a vast amount out on mental health issues resulting from the abortions. It is a recognised form of PTSD now, such is the long term mental anguish.

My other point would be there were teenage mothers years ago, my ex is the product of one, they were adopted to parents who couldn't have their own but weren't necessarily suitable parents either, my ex being a product of that too imo. This is not a new dilema.