POFUsers.com - Plenty of Fish Users Forum

College fees have been waived here for a number of years...since the Celtic Tiger years...it's free for all who manage to get the required points in their leaving certificates, but the registration fees are huge, the books incredibly expensive...oh dear haha.

The reason free University and college was available to the Irish population is because we have a lot of fee paying students from other countries studying here so their money basically paid for our education..

Since the recession things have changed again and now parents are being means tested, if they earn above a certain amount they have to pay college fees or a percentage of them.

I've never heard of a scheme here where you can borrow your college fees and then pay them back..but there must be something like that here because how can any parent afford Uni fees for a child who is studying to be a doctor or even a psychiatrist with the amount of years they need to stay in university for...unless they really are super wealthy.

Thank heavens Canadian post-sec (college or uni) is less than in the states; it's very heavily subsidized by the government. Tuition is roughly $3-5,000 per year, books roughly $1000 per year and res/food is roughly $10-15,000. Lots of grant and scholarships to defray the cost and a good loan program, with repayment beginning six months after graduation as a percentage of income.

belinda wrote:Is there a universal right for all women / all couples (gay or straight) to have children?

Simple question, lots of things to put into the melting pot. So let's avoid the Yes / No answers!

First of all,there are only a few countries in the world that appear to prefer there population to have less children,like China (Some prefer genocide or concocting a war situation with another country to stem growth) because they view having more makes good economic sense for the countries future.
Given that as a fact then we are left with those who have no or little long term chances of supporting themselves,those who can not have children and those who are gay to consider.

It can be presumed that those who are not able to support themselves who are not hindered by support systems are encouraged to have children no matter how little they contribute to society.

Those who can not have children but are hetro have all of the backing they require in broad terms about seeking help in pregnancy and morally about adoption/fostering.

Which leave same sex couples and fostering/adoption and artificial means.
The moral's and principles of someone having a child for a gay couple is there own issue and no one else imo.
A same sex couple who are as willing and able to give the love care and support to a foster/adopted child is just as viable as that of a same sex couple PROVIDED that the child is suitable to them.
But this is the key: Each child's suitability for placement is unique in some key ways,and that does not put same sex couples on an even par with there chances with hetro couples.
But,fundamentally gay couples should be taken at there own merit.

As far as "a right to children" goes, everyone has that right, and also the responsibility/ies that goes with that right!

And rightly said!

I remember in Tavistock, Devon, all through the 90's and raising my two older children
who both finished school there plus one younger son...
There were girls in their classes getting pregnant and having babies on purpose so they would get a council house.
They were using that 'card' to get out of living with their parent(s) in another council house...
And part of the problem was passing on the 'pass go and collect' card from parent to child, which
really perpetuates the mind-set that one just can't survive without the dole.

The other part of the problem is the few jobs there were there just did not pay enough to survive
without claiming at least partial benefits....and of course the minute you're on benefits at all,
you are restricted how much you can make, which then wraps you in that straight-jacket of
becoming dependent on benefits, but not really getting enough to survive, so you need to
subsidise more...forced to take cash-in-hand work, which of course you don't pay taxes on...

It is a total catch-22, I found, for I had to find a way to survive with three children
with no child support at all...yes, I had received our home (not a council house) in the divorce,
along with all the maintenance and mortgage and bills, but if a father is unemployed, then he can't pay child support....

It was never my intention to fall into the benefit trap, but we lived in real poverty for years,
just trying to get by...all the while scared I'd get caught just trying to keep my head above water...

So, I think one needs to be really careful how one views others....
because you can never really tell what's going on and why the person in front of you is getting paid their benefits...

Here, on the other hand, no, I'm not on benefits, but I have to work three jobs to barely survive and
can do that only because my youngest son is sixteen now, so I don't have to be home as much,
nor have to lose all my wages to pay for child care... but if I had young children here,
there is no way I could do it without again using the state for help....even though it goes
against the grain I was raised with to be responsible and use my skills and talents to achieve success.

No, I may not have ever succeeded in bringing home a great wage, but in so many ways, my life
has been so rich and the years I had to receive benefits are all part of the treasure, even though
we were so poor.

Moonwillow I have the utmost respect for what I read you have written here, I too am a single mum of 3 children. My ex husband screwed me over in the divorce and we had no choice but to get a house from the council. I am now in a housing association house, and yes my rent is paid and we recieve benefits, but I dont recieve FULL benefits as I work and 2 of my children recieve DLA aswell. However, this is so very different to the many young girls I have met in similar housing to me just because they quit school before the GCSE's knowing they could have a baby to get a house and money. It frustrates me sometimes, when people I meet see I have 3 children and I look young still I get judged to be that type of person.

SummerAnabelle wrote:Moonwillow I have the utmost respect for what I read you have written here, I too am a single mum of 3 children. My ex husband screwed me over in the divorce and we had no choice but to get a house from the council. I am now in a housing association house, and yes my rent is paid and we recieve benefits, but I dont recieve FULL benefits as I work and 2 of my children recieve DLA aswell. However, this is so very different to the many young girls I have met in similar housing to me just because they quit school before the GCSE's knowing they could have a baby to get a house and money. It frustrates me sometimes, when people I meet see I have 3 children and I look young still I get judged to be that type of person.

On the point of housing,and children.On seperating the parent leaving the family home in the uk is not afforded any assistance at all by local council because they are deemed to have made themselves deliberately homeless. So not only have they suddenly lost the roof above there heads and living with there children,but they are hindered from having the kids for overnight stays unless they can afford to privately rent at least a two bed roomed property.
The government and councils do not consider it important to help children through seperation issues by helping there abscent parent from having quality time together or shared responsibility.
At the time of seperating I was earning well over the average working wage and yet I could not afford to rent a two bed property privately in this town with my other outlays to consider.

I felt totally shafted and at one time I even considered us getting back together just for the sake of it seeming the better option!

Stress Free wrote:

SummerAnabelle wrote:Moonwillow I have the utmost respect for what I read you have written here, I too am a single mum of 3 children. My ex husband screwed me over in the divorce and we had no choice but to get a house from the council. I am now in a housing association house, and yes my rent is paid and we recieve benefits, but I dont recieve FULL benefits as I work and 2 of my children recieve DLA aswell. However, this is so very different to the many young girls I have met in similar housing to me just because they quit school before the GCSE's knowing they could have a baby to get a house and money. It frustrates me sometimes, when people I meet see I have 3 children and I look young still I get judged to be that type of person.

On the point of housing,and children.On seperating the parent leaving the family home in the uk is not afforded any assistance at all by local council because they are deemed to have made themselves deliberately homeless. So not only have they suddenly lost the roof above there heads and living with there children,but they are hindered from having the kids for overnight stays unless they can afford to privately rent at least a two bed roomed property.
The government and councils do not consider it important to help children through seperation issues by helping there abscent parent from having quality time together or shared responsibility.
At the time of seperating I was earning well over the average working wage and yet I could not afford to rent a two bed property privately in this town with my other outlays to consider.

I felt totally shafted and at one time I even considered us getting back together just for the sake of it seeming the better option!

I have full empathy for you my ex husband cant afford a place he has to have a room in shared house so my children dont see him as much as they could, he has to come to my house if i want to go somewhere for a few days inevitably as we have different living habits I always come home to a tip of a house and it causes problems not only between me and him but me him and the children x

SummerAnabelle wrote:I have full empathy for you my ex husband cant afford a place he has to have a room in shared house so my children dont see him as much as they could, he has to come to my house if i want to go somewhere for a few days inevitably as we have different living habits I always come home to a tip of a house and it causes problems not only between me and him but me him and the children x

I found it very hard visiting the marital home because everything there was at least half of what I had worked for and just because it was all still quite raw.But now they have moved I have no problems visiting or staying over.

I do think that council policy does fly in the face of family values and care for the effects break ups have on children.