Religion and stuff...

[zangie]

People have died for these beliefs.
I find that tragic.

I find people who die for what they believe in to be kinda awe inspiring..if sad it comes to that...

Jo...both sides committ atrocities..that's human nature..I have a "moderate" muslim friend who lives in Cairo...he believes the holocaust was an exaggeration/lie..and he truly despises jewish people, and wants them all dead..other than that he is a pretty cool guy, oddly enough..lol.....and he says most muslims do..this is two sided..besides, I believe the jews were given Israel as something like a spoil of war..for all their human loss..not much different than splitting Germany between The Soviet Union and the Germans..the spoils of war, or giving land, or concessions to the victors/victims is not a new concept..and has nothing to do with religion...what land they were given had religious signifigance...but, there weren't many other options at the time...

I don't know why you don't want to grasp the fact that religion isn't the problem..people's use of it is..and that is true of any religion/faith/belief...

[saddle-tramp]

You are certainly spouting anti Jewish themes in yer rants...

Which naturally, because of your Anti Jewish bias, and your support for Husseini* leads me to think you are a Nazi sympathiser

Anti-Religion Rants actually!
I really don't care what people believe, until they start making war on people and stealing their land.
They can wear whatever silly hats they choose, they can eat whatever "holy" food they want, they can even put strings around our streets to allow them to leave the house for a walk on the "sabbath", and pretend that they've still "followed" their own stupid "laws" about not leaving the house.
The problems only arise when they try to impose their beliefs on others.
So when "religious" types campaign against abortion on "religious" grounds,
or Stem-Cell Research,
or "same sex marriages" (Nb. I don't believe in "marriage" either! )
Or for some form of 'censorship' of free speech, because it offends them, like the "Blasphemy laws"
Or invades and displaces an entire nation, and then says "look, God gave us this land"
Then I'm 'entitled' to object.

The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Order) 5763 is an Israeli law first passed on 31 July, 2003 and most recently extended in June 2008.[1] The law makes inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip ineligible for the automatic granting of Israeli citizenship and residency permits that is usually available through marriage to an Israeli citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenshi ... Israel_Law

The Law of Return (Hebrew: חוק השבות, ḥok ha-shvūt) is Israeli legislation, enacted in 1950, that gives Jews, those of Jewish ancestry, and their spouses the right to migrate to and settle in Israel and gain citizenship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return
About 3.5 Million people took advantage of this "Law".
Religion is a BELIEF, not a Fact..
People have died for these beliefs.
I find that tragic.

I think we have all seen, the main thrust of yer arguments is always "the poor Palestinians" and "Israel are horrible", and in every opportunity, you bring in the "they stole land" crap, yer lack of similar condemnation of the atrocities the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah commit is indication you are a supporter of them racist lying thugs...

I have already proven your pet website where ye seem to get all yer information from is biased, and terrorist supporting racist tubes who have their heads firmly placed where the sun doesn't shine... Or they supporters at least do...

[Jo van]

the main thrust of yer arguments is always "the poor Palestinians" and "Israel are horrible", and in every opportunity, you bring in the "they stole land" crap,

So how do you account for the expansion shown in the maps I showed...?
Are you 'religious'..?
And are you Jewish..?
I only ask because you seem to want to ignore all of the evidence, and you seem to think that the Jews are "entitled" to return to the land they claim to have "owned" 2000 years ago.
Just what is your justification for the establishment of the country now called Israel..?

I have already proven your pet website where ye seem to get all yer information from is biased,

The only thing you've "proven" is that you buy into all the propaganda that justifies Israel's theft of the land.
Yeah, that's right, That's the only web site that says that Israel stole the land, and that's where I get ALL my information.
And the UN haven't issued 100's of resolutions against Israel
And there's only me, the terrorists, and the Hitler youth who think it's a disgrace.
If you believe that, you truly are deluded

and terrorist supporting racist tubes who have their heads firmly placed where the sun doesn't shine... Or they supporters at least do...

The only religion you seem to object to is Islam, that makes you an "Islamophobe"... (That's a polite word for a racist )
I notice you haven't condemned the rape of children by catholic priests, nothing to say on that...presumably because you condone it.

[verityone]

People have died for these beliefs.
I find that tragic.

I find people who die for what they believe in to be kinda awe inspiring..

I'm sure the 911 hijackers appreciate sentiments like yours...

[saddle-tramp]

The [b]only religion you seem to object to is Islam, that makes you an "Islamophobe"... (That's a polite word for a racist )[/b]
Awrite, so I haven't indicated my distaste ofr Protestants and Catholics on here...Aw ok then... Talk about "deluded"...

I notice you haven't condemned the rape of children by catholic priests, nothing to say on that...presumably because you condone it. :?

I rephrase that for you:
I notice you haven't condemned the rape of children by Muslims, nothing to say on that...presumably because you condone it. :?

[Jo van]

I rephrase that for you:
I notice you haven't condemned the rape of children by Muslims, nothing to say on that...presumably because you condone it.

Of course I condemn it.
But by only ever opposing one religion, you seem to be , erm......
A little bit... erm... BNP

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, until 1951, a girl of 12 could get married in Ireland.. (If she was pregnant I think)
There are just as many extremist christians, as extremist muslims.
Timothy McVeigh was objecting to the handling of the Branch Davidians (sp?) at the Waco Siege, when he bombed Oklahoma.

"...I am God!"

King also notes that Koresh was accused of impregnating the aged widow of the founder of Branch Davidianism. He said that if the charges were true, "[if he had] made a 62-year-old woman pregnant... I do miracles, I'm God!" From the transcripts, Koresh is not identifying himself as God, instead he is presenting the paradox that if this person truly believes he was able to impregnate a 62-year-old woman, then the person should also fear Koresh because he must also be God, for only God could impregnate a 62-year-old woman. Koresh also stated at that time that he had not had any relations with her and called her "an ugly old hag."[citation needed]

On February 27, 1993, the Waco Tribune-Herald began the “Sinful Messiah” series of articles. It began "If you are a Branch Davidian, Christ lives on a threadbare piece of land 10 miles east of here called Mount Carmel. He has dimples, claims a ninth-grade education, married his legal wife when she was 14, enjoys a beer now and then, plays a mean guitar, reportedly packs a 9mm Glock and keeps an arsenal of military assault rifles, and willingly admits that he is a sinner without equal." The article alleged that Koresh had physically abused children in the compound and had taken multiple underage brides amounting to statutory rape. Koresh was also said to advocate polygyny for himself and declared himself married to several female residents of the small community. According to the paper, Koresh declared he was entitled to at least 140 wives, that he was entitled to claim any of the females in the group as his, that he had fathered at least a dozen children through the harem and that some of these mothers became brides as young as 12 or 13 years old.[11]

I still maintain that (^^) religions cause problems.

[Fingerless Glove]

I rephrase that for you:
I notice you haven't condemned the rape of children by Muslims, nothing to say on that...presumably because you condone it.

Of course I condemn it.
But by only ever opposing one religion, you seem to be , erm......
A little bit... erm... BNP

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, until 1951, a girl of 12 could get married in Ireland.. (If she was pregnant I think)

Is that right hahahahaha...where did you read that?

If that was a law until 1951, you can bet it was one of those laws left over from colonial rule..

[Jo van]

Is that right hahahahaha...where did you read that?

If that was a law until 1951, you can bet it was one of those laws left over from colonial rule..

It took me fcukin ages to find it, but I knew I'd read it somewhere,
sadly I didn't bother to list the link...
But here it is:

Culture changes slowly. Prior to 1951, in Northern Ireland, a boy of fourteen years of age and a girl of twelve years of age could validly marry at common law. The setting of the age at fourteen years for a boy and twelve years for a girl represents a not uncommon world standard for marriage, but reflects a feeling that although individuals may have reached physical sexual maturity, there should be a limit requiring parental consent or prohibition (even with parental consent) until the individuals have reached an age at which they are deemed to have the capacity to take responsibility for their decisions on major life-changing commitments. This view of intellectual maturity has raised the age in Europe to sixteen years of age and also up to 18 years old in some places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(conflict)

[Fingerless Glove]

ahhh...slightly tenuous proof that the Irish were into legalised paedophilia at one time.

You have to remember that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK and that it was the Protestant loyalists who held the power there for so long...so such a law wouldn't have been a Catholic supported one...the Catholics in N.I. were treated as second class citizens hence the civil right movement there.

If you want to make the Irish look bad...why not make mention of the institutionalised abuse of orphans and women who fell pregnant out of marriage thanks to the government stupidly never questioning the Catholic institutions they paid money to to care for those abandoned folk...the government's blind faith in the relgious in this country was mindless.

[Jo van]

ahhh...slightly tenuous proof that the Irish were into legalised paedophilia at one time.

You have to remember that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK and that it was the Protestant loyalists who held the power there for so long...so such a law wouldn't have been a Catholic supported one...the Catholics in N.I. were treated as second class citizens hence the civil right movement there.

If you want to make the Irish look bad...why not make mention of the institutionalised abuse of orphans and women who fell pregnant out of marriage thanks to the government stupidly never questioning the Catholic institutions they paid money to to care for those abandoned folk...the government's blind faith in the relgious in this country was mindless.

Yes, I appreciate that, though maybe if I could be bothered, I'd look further into it.

And The "English" also routinely put "unmarried mothers" into "Asylums" at around that time, mainly indefinitely.
The children were told they were orphans, and shipped to the Australian Colonies. And Yes, much of it was done by Religious "Orders", which still attracted Paedo's, because they were "rich pickings" and they were largely unchallenged, and unaccountable.
Who would ever listen to the claims of a child, against the "word" of a "man of God"...?
But I mustn't "RANT", that would make me a very bad person.......