Has TV made us too voyeuristic?

[savona]

Personally I think some of the negative cliche behavior on internet forums is more or less an extension of the same media mentality that reality shows and TV in general seem to foster.

I agree with you as I find you never negative, always so positive.

The ones who treat debate like a competition are not really contributing much to a discussion. They are just there to pick a fight. The highly judgmental sorts contribute little more then examples of the same kind of pisspoor thinking that exists in the real world on some subjects. Often times they provide proof of the exact hypocritical thinking that often spawns that debate in the first place.

Yep I agree with you here too but I do wonder how you can be the judge of who is contributing? Perhaps those who don't agree with your point of view makes you feel that they are non contributors, as I have often been considered.

Most people these days are too afraid to have an opinion, so they do not attempt to engage is discussions.

I actually think people are MORE opinionated than they have ever been, and far less afraid to voice it.

On POF I would estimate less then 30% of the posters there had any interest in intelligent debate or the forums at all. Once they took the "last five posts" things out of profiles then I bet the forum traffic there dropped even more. These days from what I hear it is only a trickle of posters, mostly old guard and diehard trolls.

The forums are very slow there, but incase you haven't noticed they are getting pretty slow here too. Wonder why.

Everyday common people are afraid of debate, because they see how lives can be ruined by the mob bully behavior of tv show environments. People are becoming defensive and afraid of each other, because conformism is pushing intelligent people out of the mainstream. Now within ten seconds most people stick day to day individuals into a "us or them" category. That kind of social standard makes a lot of folks wary of polite discussion anymore.

POLITE discussion ... hummm

Anywhoo I have pulled back from debate forums on certain sites because I KNOW if my opinion is different than others that there are those who think I have low intelligence. So I have just not really bothered much anymore. Some nasty commentators have followed me from not only one thread to another, but from one site to another. All because my OPINION differs.

No point in a debate if everyone agrees. Right?

[eyeofthecamera]

Personally I think some of the negative cliche behavior on internet forums is more or less an extension of the same media mentality that reality shows and TV in general seem to foster.

I agree with you as I find you never negative, always so positive.

Twist twist twist.

Yep I agree with you here too but I do wonder how you can be the judge of who is contributing? Perhaps those who don't agree with your point of view makes you feel that they are non contributors, as I have often been considered.

Because you resort to twisting what someone says to justify your arguments. That is not debate savona. That is just sh*t disturbing.

Most people these days are too afraid to have an opinion, so they do not attempt to engage is discussions.

I actually think people are MORE opinionated than they have ever been, and far less afraid to voice it.

Not in public. Canadians are more afraid of their own shadows then ever before. Can't speak for folks in other corners of the world. Americans have always been prone to lash out at people so no shocker there that it is getting worse south of the border. Uncivil behavior is never justifiable.

The forums are very slow there, but incase you haven't noticed they are getting pretty slow here too. Wonder why.

Summer probably. People have better things to do.

I have pulled back from debate forums on certain sites because I KNOW if my opinion is different than others that there are those who think I have low intelligence. So I have just not really bothered much anymore. Some nasty commentators have followed me from not only one thread to another, but from one site to another. All because my OPINION differs.

I have found most of your comments far more hypocritical and judgmental then any other poster on here. It is not the issue that your views differ, but how you clearly think it is ok at times to twist words and attack someone based on something they nevers said. I don't think you lack intelligence, but that you are good at deceiving yourself that how you spark mob mentality and invent stuff is "ok". All things you clearly think that I am guilty of.

I have no problem with your opinions. Just try to back them up with something other then kneejerk commentary.

No point in a debate if everyone agrees. Right?

It is suppose to be about sharing information, not attacking each other. Making it a competition just turns it into a race where no one wins.

[savona]

Personally I think some of the negative cliche behavior on internet forums is more or less an extension of the same media mentality that reality shows and TV in general seem to foster.

I agree with you as I find you never negative, always so positive.

Twist twist twist.

I do find you positive ... how is that twist?

Yep I agree with you here too but I do wonder how you can be the judge of who is contributing? Perhaps those who don't agree with your point of view makes you feel that they are non contributors, as I have often been considered.

Because you resort to twisting what someone says to justify your arguments. That is not debate savona. That is just sh*t disturbing.

You call it shiit disturbing, I call it disagreeing with some things that are posted. My OPINION, obviously that bothers you. Too bad as I am entitled to opinion also. As are you ... see I could call you a shiit disturber too but I don't, I just disagree when I feel I disagree.

Most people these days are too afraid to have an opinion, so they do not attempt to engage is discussions.

I actually think people are MORE opinionated than they have ever been, and far less afraid to voice it.

Not in public. Canadians are more afraid of their own shadows then ever before. Can't speak for folks in other corners of the world. Americans have always been prone to lash out at people so no shocker there that it is getting worse south of the border. Uncivil behavior is never justifiable.

Here again I disagree. I think people are much more likely in this day and age, in CANADA as well as in the STATES to voice opinion. Just take race for instance ... younger people voice their opinions more. As in "children should be seen and not heard" ... I very much dislike that some people on here bash our neighbours south of the border when we all travel back n forth, enjoy what each other's country has to offer.

AND I dislike that some people think of us Canadians as being meek ... afraid of our own shadows.

You are so contradictory, I FEEL that your post just goes round n round in circles.

The forums are very slow there, but incase you haven't noticed they are getting pretty slow here too. Wonder why.

Summer probably. People have better things to do.

This is what you said about the traffic dropping off the forums ... no mention of SUMMER hahaha

These days from what I hear it is only a trickle of posters, mostly old guard and diehard trolls. Everyday common people are afraid of debate, because they see how lives can be ruined by the mob bully behavior of tv show environments.

I have pulled back from debate forums on certain sites because I KNOW if my opinion is different than others that there are those who think I have low intelligence. So I have just not really bothered much anymore. Some nasty commentators have followed me from not only one thread to another, but from one site to another. All because my OPINION differs.

I have found most of your comments far more hypocritical and judgmental then any other poster on here. It is not the issue that your views differ, but how you clearly think it is ok at times to twist words and attack someone based on something they nevers said. I don't think you lack intelligence, but that you are good at deceiving yourself that how you spark mob mentality and invent stuff is "ok". All things you clearly think that I am guilty of.

Back at ya ... hypocritical and judgmental more than any other poster on here.

No point in a debate if everyone agrees. Right?

It is suppose to be about sharing information, not attacking each other. Making it a competition just turns it into a race where no one wins.

The dictionary is your friend my friend:


–noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic . strife; contention.
–verb (used without object)
5. to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.
6. to participate in a formal debate.
7. to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.
8. Obsolete . to fight; quarrel.

–verb (used with object)
9. to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will.
10. to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island.
11. to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton.
12. to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter.
13. Archaic . to contend for or over.

[belinda]

.
i'm not sure about TV, but it feels very voyeuristic when posters bring their personal issues with each other into a debate thread...

The BBC has a "mission statement"

To enrich people's lives with programmes and services that inform, educate and entertain.

i think it covers all those areas well enough - but it's cheap TV using members of the public to be the stars and so is welcomed by the accountants.

But as with all things TV - if the ratings weren't there for that sort of show, then it would be swiftly relegated to the graveyard slot. So perhaps "reality TV" isn't making us voyeuristic - it's just playing along to the nation's urge to be curtain twitchers and see what everyone else gets up to.

.

[Humphrey Osmond]

It's funny if you think about it; "programming".

TV ...as an innovation, had the potential to do so much, ...be so many things.

Instead, it became just an advertising vehicle, ...a shill for Madison Ave hacks, a target demographic "carrot and stick" for the masses.


Ironic don't you think?

When you consider the etymology of the word, ..."television",
...an utterly myopic medium.


"Food for the mind is like food for the body: the inputs are never the same as the outputs."
- Marshall McLuhan

[ItsMargo]

Not really Humph. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all just a wrapper for advertising. It ALWAYS was "just a wrapper for ads". All media was/is because that is how content got paid for.

But a good wrapper is compelling, interesting and has good production values. Shows like 24, Prison Break, West Wing, Sopranos, CSI, zillions of the medical shows like St. Elsewhere (which I think is still the most expensive TV show ever shot) and, some would argue, even shows like Glee belong on the "quality entertainment" list.

What I see today with the rise of the amateur a la the internet isn't as good. And good content is in a spiral cuz who is going to pay for it?

We, the 'we' being consumers, demand quality and we want it for free.

(Some would argue the format TV is served up in has helped foster less interesting advertising).

Now if we can just figure out how to unpack consumerism from our economy....

[belinda]

Not really Humph. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all just a wrapper for advertising. It ALWAYS was "just a wrapper for ads". All media was/is because that is how content got paid for.
[Edit]
And good content is in a spiral cuz who is going to pay for it?
We, the 'we' being consumers, demand quality and we want it for free.
(Some would argue the format TV is served up in has helped foster less interesting advertising).
Now if we can just figure out how to unpack consumerism from our economy....

The BBC in the UK doesn't carry advertising on either TV or radio. It never has carried advertising. It is quite strict - names of products aren't supposed to be mentioned at all, and if someone does slip up in a live broadcast, presenters usually jump in with "other brands are available".

What it does have is income from a licence fee payable by anyone who has the ability in their home to watch or record live broadcast content. (This includes TV on computers, mobile phones, DVD/video recorders and other devices.) It is payable even if you would never watch the BBC - and is payable (officially) even if you have no TV but do have a TV-enabled PC.

Current rate is about £150.

There is a cost to advert-free broadcasting.

The converse, of course, is that we demand quality programming from the BBC because we pay for it but naturally (!) are never prepared to pay enough. The BBC is in a cleft stick - ratings for reality TV are high on commercial channels but the licence fee payers demand "quality" programmes not reality TV. The ratings for such quality programmes drop because of the attraction of commercial TV's ability to cater to our nosiness, and so the BBC cannot justify a licence fee increase to allow it to continue to make such programmes... The phrase "dumbing down" first entered my consciousness in debates about the quality of BBC programmes, which tells one something!

The downward spiral is slow, but i don't see how the brakes will ever be applied.

.

[Humphrey Osmond]

because we pay for it

Same thing goes for advertising sponsored programming, ..."we" still pay for it.

I've never seen advertising as anything other than an imposed/corporate consumer tax.

The costs of all the shilling we have to endure in commercial broadcasting (and all the middle men who take their cut) and other media is tacked on to the price of everything we buy.

There's the rub.

[restless_native]

It's funny if you think about it; "programming".

TV ...as an innovation, had the potential to do so much, ...be so many things.

Instead, it became just an advertising vehicle, ...a shill for Madison Ave hacks, a target demographic "carrot and stick" for the masses.


Ironic don't you think?

When you consider the etymology of the word, ..."television",
...an utterly myopic medium.


"Food for the mind is like food for the body: the inputs are never the same as the outputs."
- Marshall McLuhan

I have been known to be quite cynical on the odd occasions. But, I couldn't be quite so damning of television on the whole.

Whilst I agree that what you say is partially true. There is so much choice nowadays that it is still possible to find quality programming. The available technology also makes it possible for consumers to avoid watching the advertisements if they so wish. We have systems such as Sky+ over here which allow us to do that. I think the equivalent on your side of the pond is Tivo or something like that.